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Hard Disk Drive Longevity with Linux vs Windows 
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Post # 292597
Post Re: Hard Disk Drive Longevity with Linux vs Windows
My HD bone pile says Windows back to MS-DOS, is the clear winner for dead ones. ;)

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Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:51 pm
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Post # 292607
Post Re: Hard Disk Drive Longevity with Linux vs Windows
joany wrote:
Your points agree with what I had assumed, until I read the caveats about excessive spin-up cycling with Linux. But since I use a tower instead of a laptop, I don't think I need to be concerned about that.


The WD Green Desktops drives do it, too. Basically, the drive's firmware controls it, and you can have excessive load cycle counts using Linux.

From what I understand, some of these WD Green Drives are designed to park the heads after about 8 seconds of inactivity (controlled by the drive's firmware, not the OS features for power saving). But, most Linux distros will read or write to a drive about every 30 seconds. So, you end up with constant head parking and unparking with some WD Green Drives running Linux.

Some of the laptop drives do it, too. I've got around 3 Million Load Cycle counts on a WD Scorpio Blue Drive in my wife's laptop now (which has run Mepis almost exclusively since we bought it), when the drive is only rated for 600,000.

The Desktop drives are rated for less (the specs on the WD Green Desktop Drives show 300,000, which you can exceed in less than a year of normal use with Linux from my experience so far).

See the posts I made about the counts on these drives in this thread (Desktop in one post, Laptop in the next). But, they're still chugging along, even though my wife's laptop now has about 5 times it's rated number of load cycles on it (knock on wood). ;-)

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Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:34 pm
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Post # 292612
Post Re: Hard Disk Drive Longevity with Linux vs Windows
joany wrote:
Good data points. Do you run Linux on your Vaio? Does it have power-saving disabled by design or did you change the settings (7 years of service is a loooong time)?


Glad they're useful. I've run Win2000, WinXP, and currently Slackware on the machine. The HDD had power saving in automatic mode originally but I disabled it using the disk's native commands. Using 'smartctl' or possibly 'hddparm' achieves the same aim in an easy way today. The Vaio is slow by today's standards and the fan is annoying but it still does useful work.
I recently saw a way to upgrade the CPU which is a bit scary looking but I might just do it anyway...


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Post # 292618
Post Re: Hard Disk Drive Longevity with Linux vs Windows
Just checked my laptop against a random windows Laptop that just happened to have a HD with 40 hours difference in operational time.

Over 3301 hours of operation time, my laptops HDD on average unloaded 54 times an hour.
Over 3258 hours of operation time, windows laptop HDD on average unloaded 42 times per hour

Not worth worrying about if you ask me.

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Post # 292626
Post Re: Hard Disk Drive Longevity with Linux vs Windows
It looks like my Wife's laptop has averaged 120 load/unload cycles per hour over it's lifetime. I'm typing this post from it, and it looks like it's racked up another 500,000 cycles since I made my last post about it (it was showing approx. 2.9 Million in September 2011, and it's already up to over 3.4 Million, so that's another 500,000 in only 4 months, and the drive is only rated for 600,000 total over it's lifetime).

But, it's still working fine (knock on wood). :-)

It's been running Mepis 11 exclusively since then (I removed windows entirely when I upgraded my wife from Mepis 8.5 to Mepis 11 last year, letting the installer use the entire drive), and from the latest stats, it looks like I'm seeing a higher rate per hour now with Mepis 11. But, usage patterns probably effect it, too (so the big increase in such a short period of time may just be a coincidence).

Here's it's current smartctl rersults:

Code:
francockfield@franlaptop:~$ su
Password:
[root@franlaptop francockfield]# smartctl -a /dev/sda
smartctl 5.40 2010-07-12 r3124 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family:     Western Digital Scorpio Blue Serial ATA family
Device Model:     WDC WD1200BEVS-75UST0
Serial Number:    WD-WXE907493716
Firmware Version: 01.01A01
User Capacity:    120,034,123,776 bytes
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   8
ATA Standard is:  Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated
Local Time is:    Thu Jan  5 08:15:12 2012 EST
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x84) Offline data collection activity
                                        was suspended by an interrupting command from host.
                                        Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test routine completed
                                        without error or no self-test has ever
                                        been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection:                 (4380) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities:                    (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
                                        Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
                                        Suspend Offline collection upon new
                                        command.
                                        Offline surface scan supported.
                                        Self-test supported.
                                        Conveyance Self-test supported.
                                        Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
                                        power-saving mode.
                                        Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
                                        General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (  56) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   5) minutes.
SCT capabilities:              (0x303f) SCT Status supported.
                                        SCT Error Recovery Control supported.
                                        SCT Feature Control supported.
                                        SCT Data Table supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   200   200   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   160   159   021    Pre-fail  Always       -       966
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       823
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   200   200   140    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000e   200   198   051    Old_age   Always       -       37
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   062   062   000    Old_age   Always       -       28346
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0012   100   100   051    Old_age   Always       -       0
 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0012   100   100   051    Old_age   Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       579
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       81
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   001   001   000    Old_age   Always       -       3418672
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   112   096   000    Old_age   Always       -       31
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0008   200   200   051    Old_age   Offline      -       0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining  LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_erro
# 1  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     25402         -
# 2  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     25393         -
# 3  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     25060         -
# 4  Short offline       Completed without error       00%        27         -
# 5  Short offline       Completed without error       00%        24         -
# 6  Short offline       Completed without error       00%        19         -
# 7  Short offline       Completed without error       00%         2         -
# 8  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%         1         -
# 9  Short offline       Completed without error       00%         0         -

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
 SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
    1        0        0  Not_testing
    2        0        0  Not_testing
    3        0        0  Not_testing
    4        0        0  Not_testing
    5        0        0  Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.


Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:44 am
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Post # 292629
Post Re: Hard Disk Drive Longevity with Linux vs Windows
m_pav wrote:
Just checked my laptop against a random windows Laptop that just happened to have a HD with 40 hours difference in operational time.

Over 3301 hours of operation time, my laptops HDD on average unloaded 54 times an hour.
Over 3258 hours of operation time, windows laptop HDD on average unloaded 42 times per hour

Not worth worrying about if you ask me.

Thanks m_pav. That's another useful data point.

I have some questions concerning my backup HDD. This is an old Seagate disk that I salvaged from a computer that ran Win98 and was later converted to Win2K before being retired back in 2006. The smartctl results for this HDD seem very odd to me:

Code:
SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 10
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: 
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   061   054   006    Pre-fail  Always       -       91027843
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   096   096   000    Pre-fail  Always       -       0       
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   020    Old_age   Always       -       7       
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   036    Pre-fail  Always       -       0       
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000f   087   060   030    Pre-fail  Always       -       568538143
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   077   077   000    Old_age   Always       -       20895   
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0013   100   100   097    Pre-fail  Always       -       0       
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   097   097   020    Old_age   Always       -       3154     
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   030   054   000    Old_age   Always       -       30       
195 Hardware_ECC_Recovered  0x001a   061   054   000    Old_age   Always       -       91027843
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       0       
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   100   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0       
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   195   000    Old_age   Always       -       56       
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0000   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0       
202 TA_Increase_Count       0x0032   100   253   000    Old_age   Always       -       0       


First of all, the Raw Values for some of the error rates are completely off the charts, although no problems surfaced when I ran a complete diagnostic test on the disk. I don't know what went on when the HDD was being used in the Windows machine because I wasn't using smartctl then.

Taking those numbers with a grain of salt, note that the Power_Cycle_Count is 3154 whereas the Start_Stop_Count is only 7. How is this even possible?

My primary Western Digital HDD show the Power_Cycle_Count = Start_Stop_Count = 2372. Those numbers make a lot more sense than 3154 vs 7. Can someone explain the strange Start_Stop_Count for the Seagate disk?

(BTW, I'm not particularly worried about losing the Seagate because it's only used for backup. If it fails, I could restore a replacement disk to the same state by simply making new backups from the Western Digital HDD. I'm just curious as to why smartctl is showing these results.)

T.I.A.

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Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:04 am
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Post # 292630
Post Re: Hard Disk Drive Longevity with Linux vs Windows
The start/stop count on my 6 month old laptop HD is 550. Googling this indicates to me the number is a threshold and the smaller it is the closer the drive is to failure. Any way that is my reading of the information posted. A bit counter-intuitive, but the repair guys here can verify or debunk my interpretation.

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Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:14 am

richb thanked by: joany
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Post # 292633
Post Re: Hard Disk Drive Longevity with Linux vs Windows
joany:

It looks like you're looking at vendor specific attributes (like you'd get using smartctl -A /dev/sda) versus all attributes (like you'd get with smartctl -a /dev/sda). Little a is for all attributes.

So, you'd probably need to find Seagate manuals to interpret what those results are telling you. Here's a page with some of the more commonly used attributes (and not all drives will support all known attributes)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T.

If you follow the links to some of the drive manuals, you can often see attributes supported by a given drive model. But, info on what they're for is often pretty sketchy.

The issue I'm discussing is not power cycles. Load/Unload cycles are when the drive parks the heads in the landing zone after not seeing any activity for a finite period of time. Most of the discussion you see about it involves WD Green Drives on the desktop (or more often, in vendor specific forums discussing excessive load cycle counts with them using some of the popular NAS (Network Attached Storage) devices running Linux. But, a lot of laptop drives exhibit the same symptoms running Linux, where you may end up with excessive load cycle counts with them (as my wife's WD Scorpio Blue behaves running Mepis on it). Most of the WD Green Desktop drives are rated for 300,000 load cycle counts, and the laptop drives are typically rated for 600,000 load cycle counts. But, my wife's 120GB Scorpio Blue drive is still working fine, even though it's now up to over 3.4 Million Load Cycles (racking up another 500,000 in the past 4 months alone) lol


Last edited by JimC on Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:23 am
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Post # 292635
Post Re: Hard Disk Drive Longevity with Linux vs Windows
JimC wrote:
It looks like my Wife's laptop has averaged 120 load/unload cycles per hour over it's lifetime. I'm typing this post from it, and it looks like it's racked up another 500,000 cycles since I made my last post about it (it was showing approx. 2.9 Million in September 2011, and it's already up to over 3.4 Million, so that's another 500,000 in only 4 months, and the drive is only rated for 600,000 total over it's lifetime).

But, it's still working fine (knock on wood). :-)

It's been running Mepis 11 exclusively since then (I removed windows entirely when I upgraded my wife from Mepis 8.5 to Mepis 11 last year, letting the installer use the entire drive), and from the latest stats, it looks like I'm seeing a higher rate per hour now with Mepis 11. But, usage patterns probably effect it, too (so the big increase in such a short period of time may just be a coincidence).

Here's it's current smartctl rersults:

Code:
francockfield@franlaptop:~$ su
Password:
[root@franlaptop francockfield]# smartctl -a /dev/sda
smartctl 5.40 2010-07-12 r3124 [i686-pc-linux-gnu] (local build)
Copyright (C) 2002-10 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net

=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION ===
Model Family:     Western Digital Scorpio Blue Serial ATA family
Device Model:     WDC WD1200BEVS-75UST0
Serial Number:    WD-WXE907493716
Firmware Version: 01.01A01
User Capacity:    120,034,123,776 bytes
Device is:        In smartctl database [for details use: -P show]
ATA Version is:   8
ATA Standard is:  Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated
Local Time is:    Thu Jan  5 08:15:12 2012 EST
SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability.
SMART support is: Enabled

=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION ===
SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED

General SMART Values:
Offline data collection status:  (0x84) Offline data collection activity
                                        was suspended by an interrupting command from host.
                                        Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled.
Self-test execution status:      (   0) The previous self-test routine completed
                                        without error or no self-test has ever
                                        been run.
Total time to complete Offline
data collection:                 (4380) seconds.
Offline data collection
capabilities:                    (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate.
                                        Auto Offline data collection on/off support.
                                        Suspend Offline collection upon new
                                        command.
                                        Offline surface scan supported.
                                        Self-test supported.
                                        Conveyance Self-test supported.
                                        Selective Self-test supported.
SMART capabilities:            (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering
                                        power-saving mode.
                                        Supports SMART auto save timer.
Error logging capability:        (0x01) Error logging supported.
                                        General Purpose Logging supported.
Short self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   2) minutes.
Extended self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (  56) minutes.
Conveyance self-test routine
recommended polling time:        (   5) minutes.
SCT capabilities:              (0x303f) SCT Status supported.
                                        SCT Error Recovery Control supported.
                                        SCT Feature Control supported.
                                        SCT Data Table supported.

SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16
Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds:
ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME          FLAG     VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE      UPDATED  WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
  1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate     0x000f   200   200   051    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  3 Spin_Up_Time            0x0003   160   159   021    Pre-fail  Always       -       966
  4 Start_Stop_Count        0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       823
  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   200   200   140    Pre-fail  Always       -       0
  7 Seek_Error_Rate         0x000e   200   198   051    Old_age   Always       -       37
  9 Power_On_Hours          0x0032   062   062   000    Old_age   Always       -       28346
 10 Spin_Retry_Count        0x0012   100   100   051    Old_age   Always       -       0
 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0012   100   100   051    Old_age   Always       -       0
 12 Power_Cycle_Count       0x0032   100   100   000    Old_age   Always       -       579
192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       81
193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   001   001   000    Old_age   Always       -       3418672
194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   112   096   000    Old_age   Always       -       31
196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
197 Current_Pending_Sector  0x0012   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
198 Offline_Uncorrectable   0x0010   100   253   000    Old_age   Offline      -       0
199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count    0x003e   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       0
200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate   0x0008   200   200   051    Old_age   Offline      -       0

SMART Error Log Version: 1
No Errors Logged

SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1
Num  Test_Description    Status                  Remaining  LifeTime(hours)  LBA_of_first_erro
# 1  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     25402         -
# 2  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     25393         -
# 3  Short offline       Completed without error       00%     25060         -
# 4  Short offline       Completed without error       00%        27         -
# 5  Short offline       Completed without error       00%        24         -
# 6  Short offline       Completed without error       00%        19         -
# 7  Short offline       Completed without error       00%         2         -
# 8  Extended offline    Completed without error       00%         1         -
# 9  Short offline       Completed without error       00%         0         -

SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1
 SPAN  MIN_LBA  MAX_LBA  CURRENT_TEST_STATUS
    1        0        0  Not_testing
    2        0        0  Not_testing
    3        0        0  Not_testing
    4        0        0  Not_testing
    5        0        0  Not_testing
Selective self-test flags (0x0):
  After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk.
If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay.

Your results show a Load_Cycle_Count (ID #193), whereas neither my Seagate nor my Western Digital show any values for ID #193. Should I chalk this up to the fact that HDDs used in desktops don't use this data point in S.M.A.R.T. data?

Back in my corporate days when we carried around laptops, it seemed that the HDDs in those machines were failing left and right. I assumed this was due to higher temperatures and perhaps mechanical abuse. Now I'm wondering if excessive load cycles were a factor.

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Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:36 am
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Post # 292636
Post Re: Hard Disk Drive Longevity with Linux vs Windows
Did you try using the correct case for the options with with smartctl (it looked like you were looking at vendor specific attributes like you'd get with smartctl -A /dev/sda, versus all attributes like you'd get using smartctl -a /dev/sda). IOW, it looks like you were probably checking using a capital A (which is not going to show you all attributes).

Use a small -a to see all attributes like this (substituting the drive you want to check in place of /dev/sda)

su
smartctl -a /dev/sda


Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:40 am
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