13 Year old logic

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GoManutd
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Re: 13 Year old logic

#31 Postby GoManutd » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:24 pm

um, android was adopted because it was meant to run on tablets. the fact that it split with linux was more a result of technical issues that couldn't be overcome at the time, but mending the split between android and linux is being worked on. at the start, the intent was not to have such a large schism between the two...

and i wouldn't use windows on mobile devices as a glaring example of linux' "failure"...

you're making very broad, general statements with little facts. there's more that goes into a mobile OS than just cutting certain things out. embedded linux continues to find new uses and continues to grow.

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Re: 13 Year old logic

#32 Postby richb » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:28 pm

TLeeNorris wrote:
richb wrote:So a common packaging system will make Linux the desktop of choice? I think not.


That and a common installation yes. People want what is easy, not hard.

We may like it that way, makes us feel superior in some way, but if you REALLY want Linux to succeed with people who are lazy and want someone else to do they work for them, then yes. Business and geeks keep it alive but its never going to thrive. Look at the mini laptop/tablet market. Dropped Linux for and easier Windows and Andriod system. You cant find a Linux small form laptop anymore. Not like at first.


Your argument seems to be the complexity of software installation but you are saying it is commonality. Software installation is not difficult at all in Linux. New users only view it so because it is different than Windows. Most people want a Windows desktop because that is what they used at school or at work, not to disregard the MS practices that coerce manufacturers to pre-install it on their machines.

But clearly any arguments will not dissuade you.
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Re: 13 Year old logic

#33 Postby TLeeNorris » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:33 pm

haha.. or you...

Embedded Linux.. not exactly accessible by consumers. Locked down device that require no or little user interaction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embedded_Linux

Linux Based Andriod was made as easy to use and Windows and Mac. That is why it has been successful. Most [ep[;e with an Android device have no idea what Linux is.
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Re: 13 Year old logic

#34 Postby richb » Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:48 pm

I have a Spark on pre-order, (they are now calling it Vivaldi), based on the KDE plasma desktop. I will give it to my Linux adverse friend for a day to use and without trying to influence him get a report on how easy it is for him to use. Anecdotal and one data point but it will be revealing nevertheless.

Having been the Windows go to guy in the ages of Win98 and WInXP I can say that my colleagues had a great deal of trouble with Windows. It is hard to believe that starting at the same point with no knowledge of either and giving a Mepis desktop and a Windows desktop to a new user that either one is easier to master than the other.
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Re: 13 Year old logic

#35 Postby GoManutd » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:23 pm

you miss the point completely... the consumer doesn't even know they're using embedded linux, nor do they need to know because it's implemented that well.

android works because it found a niche that it works very well in, and designed to work in. you don't use a sledge hammer when a stapler works fine. pick the right tool for the right job.

i, for one, am damn glad that linux doesn't have a single desktop, or a single installer... i like choice and being to pick the implementation that meets MY NEEDS most.

you've argued about common packaging systems, yet failed to listen and understand what people are telling you. you talk about linux, yet don't understand the actual history of the OS... you complain about open source, but fail to understand its appeal.

if you want to be told what your desktop environment should look like, and have no choice in the matter why the h** are you using linux? go use windows or mac os if you're that disappointed with linux.

linux distros are like listening to the radio, don't like the programming? change the station. try doing that with M$ or Mac

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Re: 13 Year old logic

#36 Postby uncle mark » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:35 pm

richb wrote:It is hard to believe that starting at the same point with no knowledge of either and giving a Mepis desktop and a Windows desktop to a new user that either one is easier to master than the other.


I did it with my Dad. Started him with W98, moved him to XP, and he finally got disgusted with it and wanted to give up computing because he spent all his time updating his AV and running his anti-whatever, and calling me to fix it when something got through. I loaded him up with PCLOS v2007, and he used it without difficulty for several more years before his health failed.

The OP is spouting the same old tired lines comparing Lin to Win, when the overriding factors are familiarity, inertia, and Windows' pernicious dominance. It's not that people are unable to relearn how to use their computers, it's that they're unwilling to do so. That's why you hear all the "if only Linux did this like Windows does" nonsense.

Might as well say "if cats would fetch my newspaper like my dog I'd get one".
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Re: 13 Year old logic

#37 Postby richb » Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:45 pm

uncle mark wrote:
richb wrote:It is hard to believe that starting at the same point with no knowledge of either and giving a Mepis desktop and a Windows desktop to a new user that either one is easier to master than the other.


I did it with my Dad. Started him with W98, moved him to XP, and he finally got disgusted with it and wanted to give up computing because he spent all his time updating his AV and running his anti-whatever, and calling me to fix it when something got through. I loaded him up with PCLOS v2007, and he used it without difficulty for several more years before his health failed.

The OP is spouting the same old tired lines comparing Lin to Win, when the overriding factors are familiarity, inertia, and Windows' pernicious dominance. It's not that people are unable to relearn how to use their computers, it's that they're unwilling to do so. That's why you hear all the "if only Linux did this like Windows does" nonsense.

Might as well say "if cats would fetch my newspaper like my dog I'd get one".

I was just talking about being able to navigate the system, not the "usability" of the system. Very much agree with your last paragraph.
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Re: 13 Year old logic

#38 Postby uncle mark » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:00 pm

richb wrote:
uncle mark wrote:I did it with my Dad. Started him with W98, moved him to XP, and he finally got disgusted with it and wanted to give up computing because he spent all his time updating his AV and running his anti-whatever, and calling me to fix it when something got through. I loaded him up with PCLOS v2007, and he used it without difficulty for several more years before his health failed.

I was just talking about being able to navigate the system, not the "usability" of the system.


He had no more trouble doing what he wanted to do with the Lin system than he did the Win system. He was able to type out and print his scathing Letters to the Editor, get his dose of Fox and Limbaugh propaganda, and read the mildly dirty jokes we emailed him.
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Re: 13 Year old logic

#39 Postby richb » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:05 pm

uncle mark wrote:
richb wrote:
uncle mark wrote:I did it with my Dad. Started him with W98, moved him to XP, and he finally got disgusted with it and wanted to give up computing because he spent all his time updating his AV and running his anti-whatever, and calling me to fix it when something got through. I loaded him up with PCLOS v2007, and he used it without difficulty for several more years before his health failed.

I was just talking about being able to navigate the system, not the "usability" of the system.


He had no more trouble doing what he wanted to do with the Lin system than he did the Win system. He was able to type out and print his scathing Letters to the Editor, get his dose of Fox and Limbaugh propaganda, and read the mildly dirty jokes we emailed him.


LOL! My point exactly.
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Re: 13 Year old logic

#40 Postby anticapitalista » Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:11 pm

uncle mark wrote:He was able to type out and print his scathing Letters to the Editor, get his dose of Fox and Limbaugh propaganda, and read the mildly dirty jokes we emailed him.


Should have left him on windows :)
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