Whoa there, Trigger!

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richb
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Re: Whoa there, Trigger!

#11 Postby richb » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:05 am

reo_sam wrote:Is it possible that mepis 12 has ubuntu as base ?

This is just a wild speculation, since a fluid base like wheezy (at current stage, testing phase) is not really a good choice. I will keep my fingers crossed over this.

I would argue the point that wheezy is not a good choice. The Debian maintainers are very conservative, and yes it is termed testing, but my experience is that applications are very solid, and if issues occur are corrected very quickly.
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Re: Whoa there, Trigger!

#12 Postby Saist » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:11 am

reo_sam wrote:Is it possible that mepis 12 has ubuntu as base ?

This is just a wild speculation, since a fluid base like wheezy (at current stage, testing phase) is not really a good choice. I will keep my fingers crossed over this.


We tried Ubuntu as a base in the past. There are lots of reasons we abandoned Ubuntu like a cat booking it out of a dog show. Given from what we've witnessed publicly in recent months, such as the treatment of Kubuntu and the Unity Desktop, the development situation with Ubuntu derivatives has actually gotten worse. I expect we'll see some of the better known Ubuntu derivatives scampering back to a Debian(pure) base just to get clear of Canonical.

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Re: Whoa there, Trigger!

#13 Postby reo_sam » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:14 am

The point was not that debian testing has conservative packages or not. The point was, debian testing does not have security updates, since it is a testing version anyways. And that is a very different update method than debian-stable packages.
For desktop, use of testing is ok (but i would not do it).

Mepis is supposed to be a single good distro to work anywhere (be it desktop or server), hence, it using a debian-testing base will not be a good choice.

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Re: Whoa there, Trigger!

#14 Postby Danum » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:20 am

reo_sam wrote:The point was not that debian testing has conservative packages or not. The point was, debian testing does not have security updates, since it is a testing version anyways. And that is a very different update method than debian-stable packages.
For desktop, use of testing is ok (but i would not do it).

Mepis is supposed to be a single good distro to work anywhere (be it desktop or server), hence, it using a debian-testing base will not be a good choice.

If debian testing does not have security updates what is this repo.

#deb http://security.debian.org wheezy/updates main contrib non-free
#deb-src http://security.debian.org wheezy/updates main contrib non-free

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Re: Whoa there, Trigger!

#15 Postby richb » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:33 am

The point is whether Wheezy is suitable for Mepis. And therefore the conservative nature of the maintainers is germane. And as Danum pointed out there are security updates.

But the argument is moot as Warren will use what he wants.
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Re: Whoa there, Trigger!

#16 Postby reo_sam » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:43 am

Debian testing has only "some" security updates. Way less than available for debian stable.

See this link. http://www.debian.org/security/faq#testing

Yes, the point is moot. Since, Warren is supreme. :)

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Re: Whoa there, Trigger!

#17 Postby Jerry3904 » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:19 am

Half an answer:
Hi Jerry,

Based on the experience of the past few years, I'm trying a modified strategy.

My current plan, subject to change, is to put out a 100% Wheezy
compatible version (12.0) prior to Wheezy final, and follow that in
6-9 months with a WheezyPlus (13.0) version, after Wheezy final.

This way, the people who want to run alternate desktops, and such, can
do so from 12.0 without running afoul of MEPIS package tweaks.

And those who want to be more up to date in the long run, and use KDE
only, will have 13.0. I expect that it will be possible to upgrade
from 12.0 to 13.0, if you stick with KDE. But if you use an alternate
desktop with MEPIS, you simply shouldn't plan on running 13.0.

To emphasize the difference, I may call 12.0 a stable release, and
13.0 an experimental release.

If I have the spare time, the alpha could be ready around May 1.
Interesting, huh? What feedback for Warren do you think we should have about this?
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Re: Whoa there, Trigger!

#18 Postby KrispyKritter » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:27 am

reo_sam wrote:Debian testing has only "some" security updates. Way less than available for debian stable.

See this link. http://www.debian.org/security/faq#testing

Yes, the point is moot. Since, Warren is supreme. :)

The way I read this is that the packages that have made it to "testing" IE Wheezy at this time have had the security flaws that have appeared in their previous releases fixed. Therefore there is not as many security problems present. If something appears after their inclusion in "Testing" these problems will be addressed by security updates through the proper channels.

#deb http://security.debian.org wheezy/updates main contrib non-free
#deb-src http://security.debian.org wheezy/updates main contrib non-free

The Debian people do not want to compromise anyone system in anyway. Remember they are running the same OS as the rest of us and as they test each release it will put their systems at the same risk because sooner or later you have to allow it to access the outside world (it cannot remain in an isolated environment forever) because when the end user gets it he/she is not going to be running inside a sterile environment.

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Re: Whoa there, Trigger!

#19 Postby joany » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:34 am

Hi Jerry,

Based on the experience of the past few years, I'm trying a modified strategy.

My current plan, subject to change, is to put out a 100% Wheezy
compatible version (12.0) prior to Wheezy final, and follow that in
6-9 months with a WheezyPlus (13.0) version, after Wheezy final.

This way, the people who want to run alternate desktops, and such, can
do so from 12.0 without running afoul of MEPIS package tweaks.

And those who want to be more up to date in the long run, and use KDE
only, will have 13.0. I expect that it will be possible to upgrade
from 12.0 to 13.0, if you stick with KDE. But if you use an alternate
desktop with MEPIS, you simply shouldn't plan on running 13.0.

To emphasize the difference, I may call 12.0 a stable release, and
13.0 an experimental release.

If I have the spare time, the alpha could be ready around May 1.


This is consistent with Warren's numbering system, with major X.0 releases denoting changes to the Debian base, and minor X.5 releases denoting KDE/kernel upgrades to major releases. This is the information we've been looking for.

What's interesting is that Warren is contemplating an experimental release. That's uncharacteristically cutting edge for him.
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Re: Whoa there, Trigger!

#20 Postby Jerry3904 » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:56 am

That's uncharacteristically cutting edge for him.
Agreed. I suspect he knows where MEPIS is on DistroWatch and is trying to do something about it...
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